Kittin & The Hacker interview by involucija with photos by Keyi Studio. Hair by Attila Kenyeres – Meet the artist

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The world’s most exciting electroclash duo is back. The legendary duo Kittin and The Hacker – Caroline HervÉ & Michel Amato are known for cold beats, dark sounds and New Wave influences. They continually create their own universe of dark, hypnotic soundscapes. The first collaboration between Kittin and The Hacker in the late 90’s unleashed the hits “1982” and “Frank Sinatra” which led them to become the most important act on DJ Hell’s cult Electro Clash label, International Deejay Gigolos. Their debut “First Album” in 2001 whiplashed them to the top of the underground. Eight years later they reunited, this time for album number two. The success of this second work further fueled the expectations of the club scene – but fans had to wait another thirteen years until they could celebrate the next masterpiece, “Third Album”. Our journalists Michel & Ana Morin aka Involucija sat down together and spoke in-depth about the latest release and explored many of their views and insights. The cover photo gave us the opportunity to reverse the scenario depicted on their first album cover where The Hacker had shot Kittin. Now it’s time for revenge and Kittin shoots the Hacker to restore balance in their universe.

世界上最令人兴奋的电音二人组回来了。传奇二人组Kittin和The Hacker – Caro- line HervÉ和Michel Amato以冷酷的节奏、黑暗的声音和新浪潮的影响而闻名。他 们不断地创造他们自己的黑暗、催眠的音符宇宙。90年代末,Kittin和The Hacker 的首次合作释放出了 “1982 “和 “Frank Sinatra “的热门歌曲,这使得他们成 为了DJ Hell的邪教Electro Clash厂牌International Deejay Gigolos中最重要的 演员。他们在2001年的首张专辑 “第一张专辑 “将他们推向了地下音乐的顶峰。 八年后,他们重新聚在一起,这次是第二张专辑。这第二张作品的成功进一步推 动了俱乐部场景的期望–但歌迷们不得不再等13年,直到他们可以庆祝下一个杰 作,”第三张专辑”。我们的记者Michel和Ana Morin aka Involucija坐在一起, 深入讨论了最新发行的作品,并探索了他们的许多观点和见解。封面照片让我们 有机会扭转他们第一张专辑封面上描绘的场景,即黑客射杀Kittin。现在是复仇的 时候了,Kittin射杀了Hacker以恢复他们宇宙中的平衡。

I’ll never forget listening to your First Album on repeat after it was released – your songs were simply inevitable at our underground parties in Bosnia. I even hitchhiked hundreds of kilometers with friends to a Kittin party in Belgrade in 2003. And those were just the early days! You’ve both had seemingly relentless and consistent careers as musicians. It’s seriously impressive, especially considering the physical demands of touring life: late nights, crazy clubs and of course trying to meet the audience/promoter’s expectations.

我永远不会忘记在你们的第一张专辑发行后,反复听你们的歌曲–在我们 Bosnia 的地下派对上,你们的歌曲简直是不可避免地风靡于舞池。2003年,我甚至和朋友一起搭车几百公里去 Belgrade参加 Kittin 的聚会。 而这些只是早期的情况 作为音乐家,你们两个人的职业生涯似乎都是坚持不懈的。这确实令人印象深刻,特别是考虑到巡演生活的体力需求:深夜、疯狂的俱乐部,当然还有努力满足观众/推广方的期望。


Actually, it depends. Sometimes touring is demanding and sometimes making music is demanding when you’re not inspired or in the mood. It depends on the situation but all those activities can be tiring or enjoyable. It really depends on how you are – if you’re tired if you’re nervous if you’re good. For me I would say with getting older, touring is demanding.

MICHEL AMATO: 其实这取决于。有时巡演是很辛苦的,有时在你没有灵感或没有心情的时候,做音乐也是很辛苦的。这取决于情况,但所有这些活动都可能是累人的,也可能是令人愉快的。这真的取决于你的情况–如果你累了,如果你紧张了,如果你很好。对我来说,我想说的是,随着年龄的增长,巡演的要求也越来越高。


I think for me I would say being an artist is challenging because, in the end, you’re always on your own, making your decisions, reflecting on what you leave, your environment, aging, taking care of yourself, and dealing with emotions.

We all have extreme mood swings that make us do what we do. It’s the food for our art! But at the same time, it’s very challenging for mental health. I think it’s a day-to-day difficulty. You’re free, but this is the price to pay: to live with that loneliness and that insecurity of being an artist. I think in the long term that’s the most difficult thing to deal with but it’s inherent to that condition.

CAROLINE HERVÉ: 我想对我来说,我会说作为一个艺术家是具有挑战性的,因为在最后你总是靠自己,做出你的决定,反思你离开的东西,你的环境,衰老,照顾自己和处理情绪。我们都有极端的情绪波动,使我们做我们所做的。这是我们艺术的食粮! 但同时,这对心理健康是非常具有挑战性的。我想这是一个日常的困难。你是自由的,但这是要付出的代价:生活在这种孤独和作为一个艺术家的不安全感中。我认为从长远来看,这是最难处理的事情,但这是这种状况所固有的。

When you were working on your Third Album, what were your favorite parts of the creative and production process?



Finding the melodies and then searching for the right sound on the synthesizer – that’s really what I prefer. That’s my favorite part of the creative process and everything else is secondary. Even in making music, I like to look for something, a little bit more of this or that. But when it comes time to make the arrangement, argh, it’s boring. I mean it’s not exactly boring but it’s part of the process. And then sharing it with Caroline: “I did that! What do you think?” That’s what I prefer.

MICHEL AMATO: 找到旋律,然后在合成器上寻找合适的声音–这才是我真正喜欢的。这是我在创作过程中最喜欢的部分,其他都是次要的。即使在做音乐时,我也喜欢寻找一些东西,多一点这个或那个。但到了做编曲的时候,唉,太无聊了。我的意思是,这并不完全是无聊,但它是这个过程的一部分。 


For me it’s receiving his music, closing my eyes and letting myself be surprised by the images that immediately come to my mind right in the first few seconds. Then my second reaction is being moved, surprised and having goosebumps when I hear the track. The third is the tension and anxiety of not reaching his level; putting pressure on myself to bring out the best in me, to make something together that would we would never do alone and that’s better than our solo work. And of course, as any songwriter, to find the right words, the right topic, and the right tone, playing my voice like an instrument. To merge my personality into his music and to send it to him and wait for his reaction. That’s really the best. It’s a very rich process of fun and excitement. A bit of stress – good stress that we all need to go over our limits. I love that. Definitely why we do it, why we still work together.

CAROLINE HERVÉ: 对我来说,接受他的音乐,闭上眼睛,让自己被在最初几秒钟内立即出现在我脑海中的图像所惊奇。然后,我的第二个反应是,当我听到这首曲子时,我被感动了,感到惊讶,起了鸡皮疙瘩。第三是紧张和焦虑,怕达不到他的水平;给自己施加压力,让我发挥出最好的水平,一起做一些我们永远不会单独做的事情,而且比我们的个人作品更好。当然,作为任何写歌的人,要找到合适的词,合适的主题,合适的音调,把我的声音当作一种乐器来演奏。把我的个性融合到他的音乐中去,并把它发给他,等待他的反应。这真的是最好的。这是一个非常丰富的乐趣和兴奋的过程。有一点压力–好的压力,我们都需要超越自己的极限。我喜欢这样。绝对是我们做这个的原因,为什么我们还在一起工作。

I always find your lyrics very memorable. What were some of the inspirations for the lyrics on the new album?



First of all, having a voice. I discovered along the way that it’s a great gift, a chance to speak of something that makes sense to other people. Not only stupid lyrics, even though I like to write stupid things so I’m not too intellectual. It’s always to have that level of nuance: different layers that make the lyrics rich. On this album, it’s definitely to try to write something that is sincere about who I am now, and who we are now – which is not the same as 25 years ago. That’s why Frank Sinatra was an accident, a naive and provocative accident. We never wanted to write a second one. Fans would have loved it and critics would have said “uhhhh” again. We have the same critique all the time: “It’s close to the first album, the third one…but it’s not like the first one because it doesn’t have a Frank Sinatra.” This is something you really need to get off your mind because it’s people’s history with this track. We are out of it for 25 years and I’m nearly 50 years old so I don’t want to sing “Suck my dick / Lick my ass / To be famous is so nice.”

CAROLINE HERVÉ: 首先,拥有一个声音。一路走来,我发现这是一个很好的礼物,有机会说出对别人有意义的东西。不仅是愚蠢的歌词,尽管我喜欢写愚蠢的东西,所以我不是太聪明。它总是要有那个层次的细微差别:不同的层次,使歌词丰富。在这张专辑中,肯定是要尝试写一些关于我现在是谁、我们现在是谁的真诚的东西–这和25年前不一样了。这就是为什么Frank Sinatra 是一个意外,一个天真和挑衅的意外。我们从未想过要写第二部。歌迷们会喜欢它,而评论家们又会说 “嗯嗯”。我们一直都有同样的批评意见。”它接近第一张专辑,第三张……但它不像第一张,因为它没有Frank Sinatra”。这是你真正需要摆脱的东西,因为这是人们对这首曲子的历史。我们已经出道25年了,我也快50岁了,所以我不想唱 “Suck my dick / Lick my ass / To be famous is so nice”。


Actually we play tonight but we’ve already had two gigs for this new tour, this new album. We were talking about it for the new set we were doing and Frank Sinatra doesn’t fit anymore. So people want to hear it of course… but I’m not sure if they want to hear it. Maybe.

MICHEL AMATO: 事实上,我们今晚演出,但我们已经为这个新的巡演,这个新的专辑举行了两场演出。我们正在为我们做的新集讨论它,Frank Sinatra 已经不适合了。所以人们当然想听……但我不确定他们是否想听。也许吧。


What should we do? Be kind and give the fans what they expect. Because if we don’t play, maybe the live show is great but the one thing they will notice is that they didn’t play Frank Sinatra. Or should we stick to our integrity and our artistic goal which is to impose our vision, share our vision and not have the audience dictate what you have to do – and not play it? We are there. We are right there. Should we do it or not, you know?

CAROLINE HERVÉ: 我们应该怎么做?善待并给歌迷他们所期望的?因为如果我们不演奏,也许现场表演很好,但他们会注意到的一点是没有演奏Frank Sinatra.。或者我们应该坚持我们的完整性和我们的艺术目标,那就是强加我们的愿景,分享我们的愿景,而不是让观众来决定你必须做什么–而不是演奏它。我们就在那里。我们就在那里。我们应该做还是不做,你知道吗?


There is another option we’re thinking about…

MICHEL AMATO: 还有一个我们正在考虑的选择……


Change the lyrics?



Do a new version.

MICHEL AMATO: 做一个新的版本。

Or do what the KLF did when they performed at the British Music Awards in 1993. They performed an absolutely ruined version of their hit 3AM Eternal on stage with the noise band Extreme Noise Terror! 

或者像KLF在1993年英国音乐奖上表演时那样做。他们在舞台上与噪音乐队Extreme Noise Terror一起表演了他们的主打歌《3AM Eternal》的绝对毁坏版本!他们的表演很有创意。

:everybody laughs:(大家都笑了)


That’s great. We’re always thinking of sabotaging this track to make a statement and at the same time to satisfy fans. But in a way, it’s satisfying for us and maybe that comes with destroying what we did – which is why I love KLF. And if Nirvana would have done that, maybe Curt would still be alive. As an artist, it’s your responsibility to think about these things carefully when you are confronted with what to do with your art. My reaction would be to destroy.

CAROLINE HERVÉ: 这很好。我们总是想着破坏这首曲子来再发表,同时也是为了满足歌迷。但在某种程度上,这对我们来说是一种满足,也许这与破坏我们所做的事情有关–这就是我为什么喜欢KLF。而如果涅磐会这么做,也许Curt 还能活着。 作为一个艺术家,当你面对如何处理你的艺术时,你有责任仔细思考这些事情。我的反应是破坏。

MICHEL AMATO: I like this track but I’m bored of it. I don’t like this “Let’s destroy it”. We could do it. I know that Caroline wanted to get rid of this track way before me but I realize the version we play is not the original, it’s the 2001 remix. This 2001 remix, I also can’t hear it anymore.

MICHEL AMATO: 我喜欢这首曲子,但我对它感到厌烦。我不喜欢这种 “让我们摧毁它”。我们可以做到这一点。我知道 Caroline 比我更想摆脱这首曲子,但我意识到我们播放的版本不是原版,是2001年的混音版。这个2001年的混音版,我也听不出来了。


I think there is a middle point and that’s how your creativity gets kicked by challenges like that. And it’s the great intellectual process we love to do.

CAROLINE HERVÉ: 我认为有一个中间点,这就是你的创造力如何被这样的挑战所激发。而这也是我们喜欢做的,真诚且理智的过程。


Of course, we play some old tracks from the first album and they work! They work really well like Life on MTV, there’s this Uno track, we found some unreleased, some DAF cover that we used to do: Liebe auf den ersten Blick. These tracks fit with the new one, but Frank Sinatra… I don’t know.

MICHEL AMATO: 当然,我们播放了第一张专辑中的一些旧曲子,它们很有效!它们真的很有效,比如《Life on MTV,》,有一首Uno的曲子,我们找到了一些未发行的,我们以前做的一些DAF的翻唱: 它们真的很好用,就像 Life on MTV。 有一首Uno的曲子,我们找到了一些未发行的,我们以前做的一些DAF的翻唱。Liebe auf den ersten Blick。这些曲目适合新专辑,但 Frank Sinatra…我不知道。


But to come back to the lyrics I really want to reflect, to confront myself and our music in order to make lyrics that make sense to us today and to take risks to do things I’ve never done before. That’s very important because together we are stronger and I dare to do things that I could not maybe do by myself, like singing in French because the French chanson has a prison of Serge Gainsbourg. Every time you write something a bit intellectual in French, they say: “Gainsbourg, Gainsbourg, Gainsbourg” so I never wanted to do it. To sing in Russian – this was pre-war – thank god we say in our new song: “Soyuz doesn’t reply anymore, Soyuz is lost in space.” We’re lucky in a way that we didn’t say anything controversial! Our friends and our cities inspire us because we love them so much. I can’t help bringing some private jokes to most of the songs. So not everybody can get that but the right people do and it’s a big satisfaction as a writer to mix all these different levels of understanding.

CAROLINE HERVÉ: 但回到歌词方面,我真的想反思,面对自己和我们的音乐,以便做出对我们今天有意义的歌词,并冒险去做我以前从未做过的事情。这非常重要,因为我们在一起会更强大,我敢做一些我自己也许做不到的事情,比如用法语唱歌,因为法国香颂有一个 Serge Gainsbourg 的绝对领域。每当你用法语写一些有点知识性的东西,他们就会说。”Gainsbourg, Gainsbourg, Gainsbourg”,所以我从来没有想过要这么做。 要用俄语唱–这是战前的事–感谢上帝,我们在新歌中说。”联盟号不再回复,联盟号在太空中迷失。” 我们在某种程度上是幸运的,因为我们没有说任何有争议的东西! 我们的朋友,我们的城市激励着我们,因为我们非常爱他们。我不能不在大多数歌曲中带来一些私人笑话。所以不是每个人都能理解,但合适的人却能理解,作为一个词人,把所有这些不同层次的理解混合在一起,是一种很大的满足。

When I performed live at a festival in Geneva in 2006 where you headlined, I vividly remember standing behind you and being completely enthralled by your live set: with only a Korg ESX-1 sampler/sequencer, Roland TB-303 and a Boss delay pedal, you fearlessly ventured into unpredictable sounds and challenging broken beats. And yet the audience still went wild. Being able to hold the attention of the dancefloor while taking them into unexpected sonic territory takes massive skill. Respect. Your current Kittin & The Hacker tour features a hybrid DJ/live set. Can you describe your approach? In your live sets, what kind of space do you make for improvisation and experimentation?

当我2006年在日内瓦的一个音乐节上进行现场表演时,我清楚地记得站在你身后,完全被你的现场表演迷住了:只有一个Korg ESX-1采样器/音序器、Roland TB-303和一个Boss延迟踏板,你无畏地冒险进入不可预测的声音和具有挑战性的破碎的节奏。然而,观众仍然很疯狂。能够抓住舞池的注意力,同时把他们带入意想不到的声音领域,需要大量的技巧。尊重。 你目前的Kittin & The Hacker巡演的特点是混合DJ/现场表演。你能描述一下你的方法吗?在你的现场演出中,你为即兴创作和实验创造了什么样的空间?


This new thing we’re doing – I don’t know if we’re the first, but I think Antony Rother is doing something quite similar. We have instrumental versions of our songs on a USB like a DJ and we mix an instrumental version to make it simple. Caroline sings on some of those but not necessarily all of those and I have a small Roland Boutique SH-01a on some songs I play the melody line and in other songs I play noise. We can do some transitions with the synth instead of mixing. Also if we want we can play other people’s tracks like a normal DJ set…

MICHEL AMATO: 我们正在做的这件新事情–我不知道我们是不是第一个,我想Antony Rother正在做的事情很类似。我们把我们的歌曲的器乐版本放在一个USB上,就像一个DJ,我们把器乐版本混合起来,使之简单化。卡罗琳在其中一些歌曲中唱歌,但不一定是所有的歌曲,我有一个小的罗兰合成器 SH-01a,在一些歌曲中我演奏旋律线,在其他歌曲中我演奏噪音。我们可以用合成器做一些过渡,而不是混合。此外,如果我们愿意,我们可以像普通的DJ一样播放其他人的曲目……


…to bring more attention to influences.

CAROLINE HERVÉ: ……让更多人注意到影响。


It’s not that easy in the end.

MICHEL AMATO: 最终并不那么容易。

CAROLINE HERVÉ: It’s very exhausting.



In the beginning, we wanted to do something more simple than a live show. But actually, it’s more complicated and it’s more tiring and in the end, we’re exhausted, especially Caroline. Caroline has to focus on the vocals and the mix and me on the synths: is it in tune? 

MICHEL AMATO: 一开始我们想做一些比现场表演更简单的事情。但实际上它更复杂,也更累人,最后我们都很累,尤其是Caroline。卡罗琳必须专注于人声和混音,而我则专注于合成器:是否在调内?


And switch on the monitor when I sing.

CAROLINE HERVÉ: 并在我唱歌时打开显示器。


It’s a lot of things to think about. But more and more we are taming the fear.

MICHEL AMATO: 这是一个需要考虑的很多事情。但我们越来越多地在驯服恐惧。

CAROLINE HERVÉ: We started trying this process and there are tracks we haven’t played in 13 years. And everything clicked right away and it was amazing. We know after playing a lot of times that this setup now allows us to change the order – if we play late, early, afternoon, if we play long if we play short – we need this freedom but we also need the freedom to travel and play in every condition. When we started we played live with no sound engineer. We had a tour with a band on a tour bus and we did most of the things you could imagine. Today I think this is the best formula for promoters and for us because people receive the live experience. It’s also quite tailored for parties, clubs and festivals. Even in the afternoon, it works and we can slow down tracks.

CAROLINE HERVÉ: 我们开始尝试这个过程,有些曲目我们已经13年没有演奏过了。而一切马上就咔嚓了,这很令人惊讶。我们在演奏了很多次后知道,现在这种设置允许我们改变顺序–如果我们晚点、早点、下午演奏,如果我们长点、短点演奏–我们需要这种自由,但我们也需要在各种条件下旅行和演奏的自由。当我们开始时,我们在没有音响工程师的情况下现场演出。我们和一个乐队在一辆旅游大巴上巡演,我们做了你能想象到的大部分事情。今天,我认为这对推广者和我们来说是最好的公式,因为人们接受现场体验。它也很适合于派对、俱乐部和节日。即使在下午也是如此,我们可以放慢曲目。


On some songs, it’s really like a normal live show. For example on Stock Exchange, Life on MTV. At the moment the old ones are easier because we’ve played them before. When we do the Stock Exchange I do the same things I did 20 years ago when we were touring: I play a melody line, the chords, that’s it.

MICHEL AMATO: 在一些歌曲中,它真的像一个正常的现场表演。例如在《证券交易所》、《MTV的生活》。目前,旧的歌曲更容易,因为我们以前就演奏过。当我们做《证券交易所》时,我做的事情和20年前我们巡演时做的一样。我弹一个旋律线,和弦,就是这样。

CAROLINE HERVÉ: The setup is stable and it doesn’t break.

The most important thing is the audience experience.

If you are free with the CDJ technique, these mixers have effects inside for my voice, compressors on the microphone input and I can control the delay better than with my guitar pedal – unlike before when it would get out of control.

CAROLINE HERVÉ: 设置是稳定的,它不会坏。最重要的是观众的体验。如果你对CDJ技术不感兴趣,这些调音台里面有针对我的声音的效果器,麦克风输入的压缩器,我可以比用吉他踏板更好地控制延迟–不像以前那样会失控。


I wasn’t sure about the master tempo on the CDJ at first but even if you change the tempo the pitch of the song melody doesn’t change. You’re always in tune. I was afraid I would never be in tune with my synth but I am!

MICHEL AMATO:我起初不确定CDJ上的主节奏,但即使你改变了节奏,歌曲旋律的音高也不会改变。你总是在调子上。我曾担心我永远不会与我的合成器合拍,但我确实合拍了!


The magic of technology. We have to adapt. And it’s also better to travel that light especially since we take a lot of planes and such. If we were with a band our carbon footprint would be huge. It’s little things like that but all of it made us go that way. So far it’s working really amazing and we can also create mystery between transitions. We make the transitions very long so no one knows what’s next. It’s a great feeling to see when people are really waiting for what’s next. This would never be the case with our old live setup. We’d have a break, silence. We don’t want that anymore. We want a dancing experience that is a perfect example of who we are. We are DJs, we are musicians. It’s the perfect thing to do and I don’t think a lot of people do this… Promoters nowadays don’t really pay attention unless you’re a huge artist who invested a lot into becoming a huge major as Modeselektor did.

Modeselektor made this choice and thank god they did because they are one of the best performers in terms of visuals and stuff.

But us, we’re punks in a way – we started with gear on a table with nothing else and we couldn’t do it the other way. We didn’t want to become a huge band. That’s why we only did three albums in three decades.

CAROLINE HERVÉ: 技术的魅力。我们必须要适应。而且那么轻的旅行也比较好,尤其是我们经常坐飞机之类的。如果我们和一个乐队在一起,我们的碳足迹将是巨大的。虽然是这样的小事,但所有这些都让我们走了这条路。到目前为止,它的效果真的很惊人,我们还可以在过渡期之间创造神秘感。我们把过渡期弄得很长,所以没有人知道下一步是什么。当人们真的在等待下一步的时候,这种感觉很好。这在我们以前的现场设置中是不会出现的。我们会有一个休息时间,沉默不语。我们不希望再这样了。我们想要一种跳舞的体验,这是我们是谁的完美体现。我们是DJ,我们是音乐家。这是最完美的事情,我认为很多人都没有这样做。 现在的推广人并不真正关注,除非你是像Modeselektor那样投入大量资金成为一个巨大的主要艺术家。Modeselektor做了这个选择,感谢上帝,因为他们是在视觉和东西方面表现最好的人之一。但是我们,在某种程度上,我们是小混混–我们从桌子上的装备开始,没有其他东西,我们不能用其他方式做。我们不想成为一个巨大的乐队。这就是为什么我们三十年来只做了三张专辑。

:everybody laughs:(大家都笑了)

When you collaborate together in the studio are you both equally into taking chances and experimenting or is one of you more restrained?



When we started I was always preparing stuff before so when Caroline was coming to my place Caroline I had some ideas/ more or less ready. That was at the beginning of 25 years ago. I was still living at my parent’s house. My parents were at work in the afternoon so we could make some noise and record. We were recording in the room, she was singing into the headphones and I was pressing REC on the DAT recorder. And that was it. On the second album, we separated things. I was making the music, sending it to Caroline, and doing our lyrics.

MICHEL AMATO: 当我们开始的时候,我总是事先准备好东西,所以当卡罗琳来到我的地方时,卡罗琳我有一些想法/或多或少的准备。那是在25年前的开始。当时我还住在我父母的家里。我的父母下午在工作,所以我们可以制造一些噪音和录音。我们在房间里录音,她对着耳机唱歌,我在DAT录音机上按下录音。就这样了。 在第二张专辑中,我们把事情分开。我在做音乐,把它发给卡罗琳,做我们的歌词。

CAROLINE HERVÉ: Recording, tweaking. We have our separate roles because we know each other by heart. Of course, sometimes we ask each other for advice.

CAROLINE HERVÉ: 录音,调音。我们有各自的角色,因为我们彼此心知肚明。当然,有时我们也会向对方征求意见。


On the new one, it’s a mix of those two things. We did some tracks together in my studio like we used to do 20 years ago and we did some other tracks separately. I did the music, and sent it to her, she does the vocals, editing, etc. The good thing about this one is when we started to speak about doing an album…

MICHEL AMATO: 在新专辑中,它是这两件事的混合。我们在我的工作室里一起做了一些曲目,就像20年前那样,我们还单独做了一些其他的曲目。我做了音乐,发给她,她做主唱、编辑等。这个的好处是,当我们开始谈论做专辑的时候…

CAROLINE HERVÉ: …which is a new thing. We never spoke about it before.

CAROLINE HERVÉ: …这是一件新鲜事。我们以前从未谈过这个问题。


Caroline came to Grenoble, came to my place and I said: “I have some stuff ready. Maybe we could check it out.” The first thing we did was Ostbahnhof and I had this slow loop, like New Beat at 110 BPM. And she said: “No, this reminds me of Berlin more: faster.” So I pitched it up. In one hour the track suddenly took shape. We put this electro part followed by a straight 4/4 beat to get this Polygon Window kind of melody.

MICHEL AMATO: 卡罗琳来到 Grenoble,来到我的住处,我说。”我准备了一些东西。也许我们可以检查一下”。我们做的第一件事是Ostbahnhof(柏林火车站),我有这个慢循环,像New Beat的110 BPM。然后她说 “不,这让我想起了柏林:更快。” 所以我让它冲了起来。 在一个小时内,这首曲子突然成形了。我们把这个电子部分和一个直接的4/4节拍放在一起,得到这种多边形窗口的旋律。


That’s why I love this song. That’s why it’s probably my fav on the album because it’s magic, that feeling when he plays something and I see it. The music tells me what to say and what to do. I took the train back and I wrote the lyrics.

When I received the final track it was ready to go. I just had to put myself back into that mood, into that image of me in the taxi going to Berghain.

And really, during the first take, it’s very important to have that intensity, to close my eyes and just tell the lyrics like I was there. That’s when music works for you and for the listener because you are there, you are making it real and it’s fantastic. I love that track.

CAROLINE HERVÉ: 这就是为什么我喜欢这首歌。这就是为什么它可能是专辑中我最喜欢的歌曲,因为它有魔力,当他演奏一些东西时,我看到这种感觉。音乐告诉我该说什么,该做什么。我坐火车回来,我写了歌词。当我收到最后的曲目时,它已经准备好了。我只需要让自己回到那种心情,回到我在出租车上去Berghain的那个画面。真的,在第一次拍摄时,有那种强度是非常重要的,闭上眼睛,就像我在那里一样讲述歌词。那是音乐对你和听众起作用的时候,因为你在那里,你让它变得真实,这很奇妙。我喜欢这首曲子。


It’s super minimal – it’s just a Korg MS-20, Roland SH-101 and Korg KPR-77 for the drum machine. You don’t need to put software plugins. That’s the big lesson I had when I met Dopplereffekt 25 years ago. He said to me: “What’s important is the ideas. You can make a good track with just a drum machine.” I was like, yeah he’s right. At the time I was young and putting in too much. You don’t have to do that.

MICHEL AMATO: 它超级简约–只有一个Korg MS-20、Roland SH-101和Korg KPR-77的鼓机。你不需要放软件插件。这是我25年前遇到Dopplereffekt时得到的重要教训。他对我说 “最重要的是想法。你只用一台鼓机就能做出一首好的曲目”。我当时想,是的,他是对的。当时我还很年轻,投入了太多。你不需要那样做。


The fewer instruments you have in a song, the more space you have for every sound.

In terms of mixing, it’s great. You just give space for every sound you have and that’s what I love in his music or music like that. My voice is there to take the place where he leaves space and to never cover the rest. I know when not to bring the vocals. It’s very important to have this consciousness. It’s like furnishing your flat: not too much, the right thing at the right place. That’s how mastering is in my mind.

CAROLINE HERVÉ: 一首歌中的乐器越少,你就有更多的空间容纳每一个声音。在混音方面,这很好。你只是给你的每一个声音提供空间,这就是我喜欢他的音乐或类似音乐的原因。我的声音是在他留下空间的地方,而不是覆盖其他地方。我知道什么时候不要带着人声。有这种意识是非常重要的。这就像布置你的公寓:不要太多,在合适的地方放合适的东西。这就是我心目中掌握的方式。

MICHEL AMATO: I think one of the main lessons that I learned in music by myself and by also reading is that it’s good to know when not to play.

MICHEL AMATO: 我认为我在音乐方面通过自己和也通过阅读学到的主要课程之一是,知道什么时候不演奏是好的。

CAROLINE HERVÉ: Or not to speak. When to shut up!




I read about it from Bernard Sumner from New Order when he was with Joy Division – it was about knowing when not to play and waiting and giving space to the bass line and the singer. It works also with electronic music like Kraftwerk, Dopplereffekt, all those people.

MICHEL AMATO: 我从新秩序 New Order 的 Bernard Sumner那里了解到,当他在Joy Division工作时,他知道什么时候不演奏,等待,给贝斯线和歌手以空间。它也适用于电子音乐,如Kraftwerk、Dopplereffekt,所有这些人。

Kittin and Hacker is sometimes said to be a side project that complements your solo careers. How would you say that your solo production influences your collaborative efforts?

Kittin and Hacker有时被说成是一个补充你们个人事业的副业。你认为你的个人制作如何影响你的合作努力?

CAROLINE HERVÉ: Our separate lives give us the opportunity to miss each other and this is from the fact that we miss the feeling of complementing each other, that is born in the moment we bond together. That’s why 10 years is necessary between two albums. And also when I work with him I adapt to his universe, I try to find the common taste we have, literature, films, and whatever, aesthetics that we love. I play with it and it’s like in the theater – I go and play a certain role with him. That’s of course also because of my personality. When you work on your solo things, I explore more ambient music, I collaborate on techno stuff with other people but there’s nothing like this. We do a kind of poetry together. I also need to explore all the other things to be able to deliver what’s unique about him.

CAROLINE HERVÉ: 我们各自的生活让我们有机会错过对方,这来自于我们错过了互补的感觉,这种感觉是在我们结合在一起的时候产生的。这就是为什么两张专辑之间需要10年的时间。还有,当我和他一起工作时,我适应了他的世界,我试图找到我们共同的品味,文学、电影、任何东西,我们喜欢的美学。我和它一起玩,就像在剧院里—我和他一起去扮演某个角色。这当然也是因为我的个性。当你从事你的个人工作时,我探索更多的环境音乐,我与其他人合作技术性的东西,但没有像这样的。我们一起做一种诗。我也需要探索所有其他的东西,以便能够提供与他独特的东西。

Is there a specific mood, style or technique that you save just for Kittin and the Hacker?

是否有一种特定的情绪、风格或技巧,你只为《Kittin and the Hacker》保存?


Me, yes. I push it to the limits of songwriting and vocals, like taking accents, like very 80s French. And for you, the music I don’t know if you’re doing something very different, I don’t think so. Michel is more like crafting his art in the same style trying to make it better while I’m more diverse.

CAROLINE HERVÉ: 我,是的。我把它推到歌曲创作和人声的极限,比如采取口音,比如非常80年代的法语。而对你来说,音乐我不知道你是否在做非常不同的事情,我不这么认为。

Michel 更像是在同一风格下精心制作他的艺术,试图让它变得更好,而我则更加多样化。


I think I’ve been doing the same thing more or less since the beginning. When you’re a musician in your life you write two songs: one fast, one slow. And that’s it. You do it all over again all your life with some changes. But if you really think about it you write two songs. I just try to make these perfect. I will never reach it.

MICHEL AMATO: 我想我从一开始就或多或少在做同样的事情。当你是一个音乐家的时候,你会写两首歌:一首快,一首慢。就这样。你一生都在做这些事,但有一些变化。但如果你真的想一想,你会写两首歌。我只是试图使这些完美。我永远不会达到这个目标。

You’re still working on always trying to recreate the Liaisons Dangerous bass line, aren’t you?

你还在努力总是试图重现Liaisons Dangerous的低音线,是吗?


You know me. Of course. And there is one track like this on the album, Homme À La Mode. 

MICHEL AMATO: 你了解我。当然了。而在专辑《Homme À La Mode》中有一首这样的歌曲。

CAROLINE HERVÉ: He managed to make me hate Liasons Dangerous. And his sister said the same – because we’re very similar in terms of our dark humor. She said: “I hate Liaisons, I hate Homme À La Mode“ but in the end, somehow I like it. On my side: I’m bored very quickly and I need to explore different things, I need to collaborate with people like Hot Since 82 which is not my music but I like the guy and the work and where can I find the meeting point between something that’s not me – and sometimes it’s good and sometimes it’s bad. I did collaborations that are better than others. The best is for sure with Michel. Irreplaceable. But I need to explore these different collaborations so when I work with him I go back home and that’s where I’m very happy to deliver the Kittin stuff that people have in their hearts. But I need to go away, that’s the difference. That’s why it works.

CAROLINE HERVÉ: 他设法让我讨厌《Liasons Dangerous》。而他的妹妹也说了同样的话–因为我们在黑色幽默方面非常相似。她说。”我讨厌《 Liaisons》,我讨厌《Homme À La Mode》”,但在最后,不知为何我喜欢它。 在我这边:我很快就厌倦了,我需要探索不同的东西,我需要和像Hot Since 82这样的人合作,这不是我的音乐,但我喜欢这个人和作品,我在哪里可以找到不属于我的东西之间的交汇点–有时它是好的,有时它是坏的。我所做的合作比其他的好。最好的肯定是和米歇尔。无可替代的。但我需要探索这些不同的合作,所以当我和他合作时,我回到了家里,那是我非常高兴地提供人们心中的Kittin 的东西。但是我需要离开,这就是区别。这就是为什么它的作用。

When you started DJ’ing it was still a boy’s club. Correct me if I’m wrong but I have the impression it changed significantly in the meantime. Have your touring experiences changed over time in this respect?


CAROLINE HERVÉ: When I started there were a very few female DJs. I was surrounded by boys, by friends that pushed me a lot. It changed but it’s normal. 52% of the population are women and there’s more women in politics, there’s more women everywhere in every job and music doesn’t make exceptions. I think everybody has to stop dividing things into genres. We talk about equality, about, trans, about homosexuality, etc. And I think it’s the same. We have to stop making this a topic and we have to accept that’s the reality. It’s important so when you say there are no more questions, there’s no more subjects. I’m still shocked when people pay so much attention to that, to this new girl’s movement growing. Yes, it’s natural. 

CAROLINE HERVÉ: 当我开始的时候,很少有女性DJ。我周围都是男孩,有很多朋友推我。它改变了,但这是正常的。52%的人口是女性,在政治上有更多的女性,在每个工作中都有更多的女性,音乐也不例外。我认为每个人都必须停止把事情划分为流派。我们谈论平等,谈论,变性,谈论同性恋,等等。而我认为这也是一样的。我们必须停止把这作为一个话题,我们必须接受这就是现实。这很重要,所以当你说没有问题了,就没有话题了。当人们如此关注这个,关注这个新的女孩运动的成长时,我仍然感到震惊。是的,这很自然。

So, people were fighting for it for so long and now the process is more or less over, like: it’s there.



Putting people into different camps is dividing everyone. That’s what I don’t like in everything. It’s a delicate subject. In France communities are more and more divided on everything: sexuality, skin color, where are you from in the world, men and women – and it’s not bringing people together.

MICHEL AMATO: 把人们归入不同的阵营是在分裂大家。这就是我不喜欢的一切。这是一个微妙的话题。在法国,社区在所有事情上的分歧越来越大:性行为、肤色、你来自世界何处、男人和女人—而这并没有使人们团结起来。


Activism is a trend. A lot of people make money or try to get attention from their social or political beliefs which is good when it’s sincere, but it’s not always.

There’s also deviancy with that. That’s when you say, yeah it’s normal, it has to be equal, it’s normal that there are more women, more trans, that’s it. Stop it, end of the story. And that’s what we have to fight for. Everybody has their way to fight but from my side, I think I did my part of the job for 25 years and it was a time when being confrontational didn’t work. Today you have to be confrontational because finally, it’s OK to say: this is not bearable. You could only swallow it, focus on your work, not pay attention to what people say and gain respect by working, by doing. So, I come from there. I was not raised to scream and be a flag holder and I think if I would be a flag holder now this would not make sense within my history. It’s time for newcomers on social media to have their battles. I came to the point now where I want to enjoy my life. I’m at peace with myself and I just try to be faithful to my convictions and it’s not because you’ll claim things on social media that you’re doing the fight right. Sometimes it’s about the ethics of decisions you make every day and who you work with and not always showing it off to the world. Sometimes it’s very humble work and I believe that from where I come from, it’s for me. I don’t say it’s for everybody but my kind of activism is much more about the details, going to the bed at night and making the right decisions with my philosophy. I take the opportunity to encourage people to not feel guilty if they’re not spreading their ideas to the world all the time. It’s like recycling – if you recycle at home and do your thing, you take the bus, that’s great. You don’t have to go on the street and say the planet is dying. Every way of expressing is good, even the silent and the humble one which is sometimes more effective. It’s also OK to be more discrete.

CAROLINE HERVÉ: 活动主义是一种趋势。很多人赚钱或试图从他们的社会或政治信仰中获得关注,当它是真诚的时候是好的,但并不总是这样。这其中也有偏差。这时你会说,是的,这很正常,它必须是平等的,有更多的女性、更多的变性人是正常的,就是这样。停止它,故事结束。这就是我们必须要争取的东西。每个人都有自己的斗争方式,但从我的角度来看,我认为我做了25年的工作,那是一个对抗性不起作用的时代。今天,你必须要对抗,因为终于可以说:这是不可以忍受的。你只能咽下这口气,专注于你的工作,不关注别人说什么,通过工作,通过做获得尊重。所以,我是从那里来的。我从小就不是叫嚣着要做旗手,我想如果我现在要做旗手,这在我的历史中是没有意义的。现在是社交媒体上的新人进行战斗的时候了。我现在来到了我想享受生活的地方。我与自己和平相处,我只是试图忠实于我的信念,并不是因为你在社交媒体上宣称的事情,你就能做正确的斗争。 有时是关于你每天所做决定的道德,以及你与谁一起工作,并不总是向世界展示它。有时它是非常卑微的工作,我相信从我的出身来看,它适合我。我不说它适合每个人,但我的这种行动主义更注重细节,晚上上床睡觉,用我的理念做出正确的决定。我借此机会鼓励人们,如果他们没有一直向世界传播他们的想法,不要感到内疚。这就像回收利用–如果你在家里回收利用,做你的事,你坐公交车,那很好。你不必上街去说地球正在死亡。每一种表达方式都是好的,即使是沉默的、谦逊的表达方式,有时也更有效。更加分散也是可以的。

When I last saw your studio in person in 2006 it was filled with analog synths, classic drum machines and an old-school iMac used primarily for drum samples. Knowing that you’ll never give up your core team of the Korg MS-20, Roland TR-808 and SH-101, what would you say has changed the most since then?

当我最后一次在2006年亲眼看到你的工作室时,里面充满了模拟合成器、经典的鼓机和一台主要用于鼓的采样的老式iMac。知道你永远不会放弃你的核心团队Korg MS-20、Roland TR-808和SH-101,你会说从那时起,什么变化最大?

MICHEL AMATO: I don’t have an iMac anymore. But you know me, when I’m comfortable with the setup I don’t change. I’m not like all those nerds that need to update every two weeks. When something is good, it’s good. Ableton Live 9 is good. I don’t have Live 11 like everybody else now, like why? Live 9 is still good. That’s my lazy part. The studio didn’t change much. I cleaned it. When you came it was a mess, now it’s much cleaner. I’ve changed the configuration and the setup but it’s more or less the same. Machines are the same, I haven’t bought many more since then. Maybe the System Roland 100m, Roland Jupiter 6.

MICHEL AMATO: 我不再有iMac了。但你知道我,当我对设置感到满意时,我不会改变。我不像那些书呆子一样,每两周就需要更新一次。当一个东西好的时候,它就是好的。Ableton Live 9很好。我现在没有像其他人那样拥有Live 11,为什么?Live 9仍然是好的。这是我懒惰的部分。 工作室没有什么变化。我把它打扫干净了。你来的时候它是一团糟,现在它干净多了。我改变了配置和设置,但它或多或少是一样的。机器是一样的,从那时起我没有再买很多机器。也许是System Roland 100m, Roland Jupiter 6.

You had just bought an Alpha Juno at the time.

当时你刚买了一个 Alpha Juno。

MICHEL AMATO: Wow, that’s a long time ago. Now I sold it for 50 Euro. It’s more or less the same studio, I reshaped it, I have more space, it’s cleaner and it has daylight. I have some green plants so it’s much more enjoyable. At some point I was bored, you know when you work in the same room and it was more and more of a mess. Cables, dust everywhere and in the end I didn’t want to make music in this room anymore. Then a friend of mine said: let’s change everything. So we took everything out during the lockdown as there was nothing else to do. We took everything apart, cleaned everything, bought a new big table and now it’s cool again. I realized it’s important to change your environment. And now I realize it gave me the idea for the new album, I wanted to make music again in this new studio. Basically I work the same way. I still have the sampler from old Korg sampler I was using in 2003. 

MICHEL AMATO: 哇,那是很久以前的事了。现在我以50欧元的价格卖了它。它或多或少是同一个工作室,我重新塑造了它,我有更多的空间,它更干净,有日光。我有一些绿色植物,所以它更令人愉快。在某些时候,我感到很无聊,你知道当你在同一个房间工作时,它越来越乱。电缆,到处是灰尘,最后我不想再在这个房间里做音乐了。然后我的一个朋友说:让我们改变一切。所以我们在封锁期间把所有东西都拿出来了,因为没有别的事情可做。我们把所有的东西都拆了,清理了所有的东西,买了一张新的大桌子,现在它又酷了。我意识到改变你的环境很重要。现在我意识到这给了我新专辑的想法,我想在这个新的工作室里重新做音乐。基本上我的工作方式是一样的。我还保留着2003年时使用的老Korg采样器。

Do you still use your vintage Roland Space Echos?

你还在使用你的老式Roland Space Echos吗?


Of course. I had them both reconditioned. I use software plugins and then you get used to them and you think: “It’s good.“ And then you use the real thing and you’re like: “No, that’s not it. There’s a difference.“ The track we’re playing again is called Uno: it’s made with a Roland TR-606, the real one and the MS-20 again; my usual setup. And we played it again – the song is big. I hadn’t listened to it for at least 15 years and she sang on it and I was like “Wow!“ It sounds big because it’s the real thing.

MICHEL AMATO: 当然了。我把它们都翻新了。我使用软件插件,然后你习惯了它们,你认为:”这很好。” 然后你使用真正的东西,你就会想: “不,这不是它。这是有区别的。” 我们再次演奏的这首曲子叫做《Uno》:它是用Roland TR-606,真正的那台和MS-20做的;我通常的设置。我们又播放了它–这首歌很大。我至少有15年没有听过这首歌了,她在上面唱歌,我就觉得 “哇!” 它听起来很大,因为它是真实的东西。

Having performed in cities like Beijing, Shanghai and Hong Kong, do you have any memories that strike you as unique on Chinese dancefloors?


CAROLINE HERVÉ: I played for the first time in Shanghai in a club that was like a small warehouse and there were police in the club dancing. Then I went to a rather small city – but still millions and millions – and my eyes were crying because the air was so bad. The club was above a KFC and there were Porsches and Ferraris parked in front of the KFC. You’d take the elevator and arrive in this gigantic club with a giant aquarium. You would enter the club with bottles and rich youth. And there was a cover band of American black guys playing something before my set and of course, after half an hour they asked me to stop because they didn’t know what they booked. At this time they were booking a few girls – I know Ellen Alien went there. It was amazing.

I was dressed in combat boots and arrived at the place where everybody was dressed up. It was really the early chic stages in China and it was an amazing experience because it was something I’d never seen and never experienced before.

The fact that my performance was not understood didn’t matter because you’re a part of something new and it was maybe it was too early that I went there. I was the wrong person but it wasn’t their fault. It’s amazing to see these places you’d never go without music and that’s what counts. The experience of discovering the world, other cultures and other ways of doing things. It’s like going to another planet and that’s the most precious thing in this world.


我第一次在上海演出,是在一个像小仓库一样的俱乐部,俱乐部里有警察在跳舞。然后我去了一个相当小的城市–但仍然有几百万和几千万–我的眼睛都哭了,因为空气太差了。俱乐部在一家肯德基上面,肯德基前面停着保时捷和法拉利跑车。你乘坐电梯,来到这个巨大的俱乐部,里面有一个巨大的水族馆。你会带着瓶子和富有的年轻人进入俱乐部。而在我的演出之前,有一个美国黑人的翻唱乐队在演奏什么,当然,半小时后,他们要求我停下来,因为他们不知道他们预订了什么。这时,他们正在预订一些女孩–我知道Ellen Alien去了那里。这真是太神奇了。我穿着战斗靴,来到了所有人都打扮好的地方。这真的是中国早期的别致阶段,这是一个惊人的经历,因为这是我以前从未见过、从未经历过的事情。我的表现不被理解的事实并不重要,因为你是新事物的一部分,也许是我去那里太早了。我是个错误的人,但这不是他们的错。 看到这些没有音乐就不会去的地方,这很了不起,这才是最重要的。发现世界、其他文化和其他做事方式的经验。这就像到了另一个星球,这是这个世界上最宝贵的东西。


I remember being in Beijing and everyone was pretty drunk. There was this local alcohol that smelled a bit like gasoline; pink, very strange. The party was cool but it was not like a techno night, it was more like an alternative night. I was surprised and I didn’t know what to expect, it was my first time in this club. What I remember is that I didn’t eat anything on my way to Beijing – I don’t know why – and I finished my set at half past 4 or 5 in the morning and I was hungry. I told the guy and he said: “Are you ready for some real street food?“ I said yeah. He said: “The real stuff.“ And I said: “Yes, let’s do it!“ And we went to the street and there was this old woman who was 85 or maybe even 100 years old. She was making these big crepes, really big and I didn’t recognize any of the stuff she was putting in it and I said: “Whatever, do it.“ It was like 10 cents, super cheap. And it was great, it was amazing. 

MICHEL AMATO: 我记得在北京的时候,每个人都喝得很醉。有一种当地的酒,闻起来有点像汽油;粉红色,非常奇怪。派对很酷,但它不像一个电子乐之夜,它更像一个另类的夜晚。我很惊讶,我不知道该期待什么,这是我第一次来这个俱乐部。我记得的是,我在去北京的路上没有吃任何东西–我不知道为什么–我在早上4点半或5点完成了我的演出,我很饿。我告诉那个人,他说。”你准备好吃一些真正的街头食品了吗?” 我说是的。他说。”真正的东西。” 然后我说。”是的,我们开始吧!” 我们走到街上,有一个85岁或甚至100岁的老妇人。她正在做这些大的可丽饼,真的很大,我不认识她在里面放的任何东西,我说:”不管怎样,做吧。我说:”随便,做吧。” 这就像10美分,超级便宜。这很好,很神奇。

CAROLINE HERVÉ: Chinese food is a must. 




It was so strange to see this old woman at 5 in the morning surrounded by drunk people. She was speaking to me in Chinese and I kept on telling her “I don’t understand – I’m French! Oui.“ 

MICHEL AMATO: 在早上5点看到这个老妇人被喝醉的人包围,真是太奇怪了。她用中文和我说话,而我一直告诉她 “我听不懂–我是法国人!”。Oui”。

CAROLINE HERVÉ:That’s what we want to experience, you don’t want to go to French restaurants.



Interview 作者:Involucija (Michel & Ana Morin)

Translation 翻译: Emi

Photos照片: Izabella Chrobok & Grzegorz Bacinski – Keyi Studio [

Hairstylist 发型师: Atilla Kenyeres


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